Discussion:
How to enable a clutch to prevent skidding?
(too old to reply)
k***@hotbox.ru
2006-03-28 10:18:40 UTC
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Hello
How to enable a clutch in NFS PU? A car begin to skid during a
cornering on high speed when I release an acceleration pedal, not even
push a brake pedal. I have to enable the clutch when releasing the
acceleration pedal to prevent the skidding.
If you release an acceleration pedal during a cornering on high speed
without a clutch, an engine rotation drops lower than the car speed and
the engine begins to act as an engine brake and the car begins to skid.
In real life you can enable the clutch to prevent the engine braking.
Without a clutch in the game you have to gues the acceleration level
which would not influence the wheels rotations during cornering, which
is difficult and unreal.
ArtDent
2006-03-28 16:02:51 UTC
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Post by k***@hotbox.ru
Hello
How to enable a clutch in NFS PU?
There is no clutch in PU.
(heh, says the guy that always drove auto)
Post by k***@hotbox.ru
A car begin to skid during a
cornering on high speed when I release an acceleration pedal, not even
push a brake pedal. I have to enable the clutch when releasing the
acceleration pedal to prevent the skidding.
If you release an acceleration pedal during a cornering on high speed
without a clutch, an engine rotation drops lower than the car speed and
the engine begins to act as an engine brake and the car begins to skid.
In real life you can enable the clutch to prevent the engine braking.
Without a clutch in the game you have to gues the acceleration level
which would not influence the wheels rotations during cornering, which
is difficult and unreal.
Usually, the quickest way thru a curve/corner is to slow down just before
the turn, then accelerate through it.
--
We apologize for the inconvenience
k***@hotbox.ru
2006-03-28 16:43:13 UTC
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Thanks ArtDent for your reply.
Accelerating through a curve/corner increases a load on tires and a
centrifugal force and thus causes skidding. Slowing down just before
the turn could decrease speed more than needed for preventing skidding.
Enabling clutch would prevent increasing the load on tires and the
centrifugal force, and prevent decreasing speed more than needed for
preventing skidding. Am I right?
vellu
2006-03-28 18:25:10 UTC
Permalink
In real life, no doubt, but in the game you are bound to its
restrictions. Hence, slowing down before the curve and accelerating
through is usually the fastest way IN THE GAME.
Post by k***@hotbox.ru
Thanks ArtDent for your reply.
Accelerating through a curve/corner increases a load on tires and a
centrifugal force and thus causes skidding. Slowing down just before
the turn could decrease speed more than needed for preventing skidding.
Enabling clutch would prevent increasing the load on tires and the
centrifugal force, and prevent decreasing speed more than needed for
preventing skidding. Am I right?
Jeff Reid
2006-03-29 01:04:58 UTC
Permalink
Hence, slowing down before the curve and accelerating through is usually the
fastest way in the game.
As I've previously posted, if you setup some lift throttle oversteer, you can enter
corners faster, and slow down in the corners by just lifting on the throttle a bit.
The car scrubbs off speed but keeps turning inwards, instead of plowing off track.

The cars also turn better under throttle with some oversteer in the setup. In NFS:PU,
the oversteer is the result of less rear grip than front grip. On a car like the 1995
Turbo Porsche, you set the toe all the way right, front tire pressure to 45 (maximum
grip in NFS:PU), and rear tire pressure to 41, 42, or 43 (a bit less grip).

The older 2 wheel driven 911's have too much oversteer, so you need to move the
toe adjustment all the way left, and probably leave front and rear tire pressure at
45.
ArtDent
2006-03-28 18:37:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@hotbox.ru
Thanks ArtDent for your reply.
Accelerating through a curve/corner increases a load on tires and a
centrifugal force and thus causes skidding. Slowing down just before
the turn could decrease speed more than needed for preventing skidding.
Enabling clutch would prevent increasing the load on tires and the
centrifugal force, and prevent decreasing speed more than needed for
preventing skidding. Am I right?
Erm... what do you get when you cross an elephant and a rhinocerus?
Elephino.
You are getting a bit too technical for me, we need the numbers man Jeff
Reid to answer this kind of stuff.
I haven't played this game for a few years now, mostly what I remember was
that it was a lot of fun until they turned the servers off (even then it
was pretty nice for awhile with Ncops etc.).
While the physics are pretty close to 'real world', they are not perfect,
so some things may be a bit different from driving a 'real' car in the
same situations.
Sorry I could not help more.
--
We apologize for the inconvenience
k***@hotbox.ru
2006-03-29 12:44:05 UTC
Permalink
Thanks ArtDent.
What is Ncops?
ArtDent
2006-03-29 15:29:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@hotbox.ru
What is Ncops?
It was a utility to allow you to see who was running tcp/ip games - if
they also had ncops.
Instead of having to go to one of the web forums and trying to get a pit
going by listing your ip as host there, you would have this program
running and it would automatically send your (hosters) ip to a web page
and anybody else running the program then could see it and decide if they
wanted to join your pit or Jims' or John's or whoever else was playing
host to a pit. It was good for a few months after the servers were shut
down, for some of us die-hards that still wanted to race against people
instead of just the ai. It has been so long I don't even remember the
name of the guy that wrote it, it was the webmaster from nfscheats but I
forget his name atm.
--
We apologize for the inconvenience
Jeff Reid
2006-03-30 06:12:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@hotbox.ru
What is Ncops?
IPLounge is an alternative to Ncops, I'm not sure if it's fully
replaced Ncops or not.

IPLounge provides a common chat area, and convenient method
to join in a TCP-IP race. For High Stakes, there are also
add-on tracks and cars automatically selected when joining
a race, accomplished via a "mixer" program that is invoked
by IPLounge when you join in a High Stakes race.

The forums to check out are:

For NFS5 - Porsche Unleashed:

http://www.racerplanet.com/forum/

For NFS4 - High Stakes:

http://forum.needforbetterspeed.net/

IPLounge for NFS5 is available at:

http://www.rivalstock.com/iploungehelp.htm

IPLounge for NFS4 along with the expansion pack is available at:

http://www.hsscoring.com/download
k***@hotbox.ru
2006-04-18 09:11:50 UTC
Permalink
Thanks ArtDent replying.

Jeff Reid
2006-03-29 00:59:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@hotbox.ru
How to enable a clutch in NFS PU? A car begin to skid during a
cornering on high speed when I release an acceleration pedal, not even
push a brake pedal. I have to enable the clutch when releasing the
acceleration pedal to prevent the skidding.
To cure the problem you're having, move the toe slider all the way left. What
toe setting does in NFS:PU is adjust the front to rear grip bias. Moving
it all the way left increases rear grip and reduces front grip. Overall grip
remains the same.

On some cars, like the 1995 Turbo Porsche, and most of the 4 wheel drive
cars, you move the toe slider all the way right, and reduce the rear tire pressure
a little. Set front tire pressure to 45, and rear tire pressure from 43 down to
41. The GT1 can run with even less rear tire pressure, 40 down to 38.

Some lift throttle oversteer is good with NFS:PU. You can enter a turn a bit
fast, then lift off on the throttle a little bit and the car will slow down and
continue turning in. Without the oversteer setup, this method won't work
and the car will just plow off track if you try to slow down while turning.

Other tidbits:

Front downforce doesn't do anything except slow a car down. The slower
speeds can fool a player into thinking that front downforce is improving grip
since the same control inputs allow a car to make a turn, but what is really
happening is the car is just going slower.

Rear downforce doesn't improve grip at all, just keeps a car from going
airborne. You can test this on the skidpad. Maximum cornering speed is
the same with downforce at 0/0 or 100/0. On the high powered cars,
using downforce of 70 to 80 helps keep the cars on the road over bumps
and jumps.

Setting top gear extremely tall reduces aerodynamic drag. This is only legal
on the race cars though. In the case of the GT1, you use the maximum negative
adjustments on 6th and final gear ratios, making it useless, but you still have
5 gears to adjust for a track. Top speed increases from about 205mph to
235mph at Zone Industrielle with this trick.

The other settings are ride height all the way left, suspension all the way right.
k***@hotbox.ru
2006-03-29 12:45:15 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Jeff Reid.
What is "lift throttle oversteer" and the skidpad?
Jeff Reid
2006-03-30 06:13:23 UTC
Permalink
What is the skidpad
The skidpad is the test track in NFS:PU, used during factory driver,
but can also be used to test drive a car. The real skidpad is
the inner circle, but to test a car you want to drive on the outside
circular track.
"lift throttle oversteer"?
Lift throttle

By lifting your foot off the throttle, some engine braking force
is induced.

Oversteer

As I used it in the expression "lift throttle oversteer", oversteer is
when the back end of a car slides outwards, causing the car to turn
inwards while cornering. This is a common usage, but not technical,
see below.

In the case of NFS:PU, you can setup the cars so that they "oversteer"
a bit when you lift the throttle while turning at the limits of traction.
The cars slow down, but also keep turning inwards, which results in
a decreasing radius direction of travel. With a "non-oversteer" setup,
the result of trying to slow down when at the limits results in the radius
remaining the same or getting bigger, and the car goes off track. With
the oversteer setup, you can enter a corner faster, then lift off the
throttle so the car slows down and turns tighter, improving corner entry
phase speeds.

With a rear wheel drive car, all of the engine braking is applied at the
rear tires, so the car has a natural tendency to oversteer already, usually
too much in NFS:PU, so you need to reduce this by adjusting the toe slider
to the left. With a 4 wheel drive car, the engine braking occurs on all 4
tires, so you need to reduce rear wheel grip relative to front wheel grip
in order to get the 4 wheel drive cars to lift throttle oversteer. Usually
moving the toe in slider all the way right isn't enough, so you run the front
tires at 45 psi (maximum cornering grip in NFS:PU, not in real life), and
the rear tires at a slighly lower pressure, like 41 to 43 for the 911's, or 38 to
41 for the GT1.

On some race cars, like the cars modeled in Grand Prix Legends, the rear end
differential has a seperate locking factor for when the engine is accelerating
and for when the engine is decelerating a car. This can be used to modify
the oversteer reaction of a car to throttle inputs. NFS:PU doesn't model this.

More accurate oversteer definitions:

The technical definition is when the rear tires have less slip angle
than the front tires. The front tires have to be steered slightly
outwards (relative to the car, not to the direction of travel), for
a true oversteer condition to exist.

"Oversteer" in reference to the setup of a car. A car is driving at
moderate speed in a circle, and gradually speeds up. As the car
speeds up and nears the limits of traction, the driver may need to
change the steering input in order to maintain the same turning
radius. Typically in a street car, the steering input is increased,
meanging that the front tires have to be turned further inwards, and
the setup is called "understeery". If the steering input remains the
same, the car is considered neutral. If less steering input is
required, then the setup is called "oversteery". If the driver has
to completly center the steering, so both front and rear wheels
are parallel and all have the same skid/slip angle, this is considered
to be a "critical oversteer" setup. In the case of a car on a sliding
surface, you can go beyond this where the front tires have to be
turned outwards relative to the car, but there's no special term for
this, except for the technical definition of oversteer.
k***@hotbox.ru
2006-04-05 07:49:12 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Jeff Reid for your comprehensive reply.
How can I play NFS PU with somebody over the internet?
Jeff Reid
2006-04-06 06:18:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@hotbox.ru
Thanks Jeff Reid for your comprehensive reply.
How can I play NFS PU with somebody over the internet?
Get IPLounge from here in the downloads section:

http://www.rivalstock.com/index.php
k***@hotbox.ru
2006-04-18 09:08:35 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Jeff Reid for your link!
k***@hotbox.ru
2006-04-05 08:37:09 UTC
Permalink
Dear Jeff Reid,
What do differential and "locking factor" mean in "the rear end
differential has a seperate locking factor for when the engine is
accelerating and for when the engine is decelerating a car"?
Jeff Reid
2006-04-06 06:16:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@hotbox.ru
What do differential and "locking factor" mean in "the rear end
differential has a seperate locking factor for when the engine is
accelerating and for when the engine is decelerating a car"?
Locking factor is how much the two rear tires are forced to rotate
at the same rate. If the locking factor is 100%, it's the same as
a live axle, like in a go-kart where both rear tires always rotate
at the same rate. In a turn the innner tire has to spin a bit since
it's rotating at the same rate as the outer tire. If the locking
factor is 0%, this is like a open differential, and one tire can be
stopped while the other is rotating.

One type of limited slip differential uses clutch plates as a friction
source between the two rear tires. In certain types of these differentials,
the amount of pressure on the clutch plates can dependds on the amount of
torque, either accelerating or braking torque from the engine. This is
accomplished by the angle of the surface of the teeth on the driving
(pinion) and driven gears. The angle determines the ratio of pressure
versus engine torque. In some cases, there these angles are different
between the front and back of the gears, allowing a different locking
factor for engine acceleration and braking. Grand Prix Legends models
such a differential, refering to the gear angles as the ramp angles.
k***@hotbox.ru
2006-04-18 09:07:05 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Jeff Reid for your comprehensive reply!
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