Discussion:
MW - Getting annoyed now!
(too old to reply)
Carl Waring
19 years ago
Permalink
I am getting more and more annoyed with this game now. I've been trying to
complete Challenges 37 & 39 for about two damned weeks now!! Apart from
"just keep at it" has anyone got any helpful tips on how I might get these
two done?

The police challenges are not a problem so I've managed to open-up the ones
after 37/39 okay.

It just seems to me that they've written it so that even the very tinyest of
delays mean you won't complete that section in time. Take #37 for example. I
can mostly do Checkpoints #1-4 but even with a clear run I always fail to
get to 5 (the one round the bend after the tunnel. It could be #5!)

Oh, and a pickup truck? You've GOTTA be kidding?
--
Carl Waring
http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495
Jeff Reid
19 years ago
Permalink
I am getting more and more annoyed with this game now. I've been trying to complete Challenges 37 & 39 for about two
damned weeks now!! Apart from "just keep at it" has anyone got any helpful tips on how I might get these two done?
Use speed breaker, it helps quite a bit, as a car turns faster with
speed breaker on.
Carl Waring
19 years ago
Permalink
Post by Jeff Reid
Post by Carl Waring
I am getting more and more annoyed with this game now. I've been
trying to complete Challenges 37 & 39 for about two damned weeks
now!! Apart from "just keep at it" has anyone got any helpful tips
on how I might get these two done?
Use speed breaker, it helps quite a bit, as a car turns faster with
speed breaker on.
I do use that. Doesn't help :-(

Incidently, I thought (or maybe assumed!) that SB was supposed to slow *the
action* down but not your speed (relatively speaking)? Seems I was wrong
though as whenever I come out of SB I'm always at around 60 mph, even if I
hit it at 190!!
--
Carl Waring
http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495
Kasey Chang (remove EATSPAM to reply)
19 years ago
Permalink
Post by Carl Waring
Incidently, I thought (or maybe assumed!) that SB was supposed to slow
*the action* down but not your speed (relatively speaking)? Seems I
was wrong though as whenever I come out of SB I'm always at around 60
mph, even if I hit it at 190!!
If you turn too sharply you'll lose speed too.
Kasey Chang (remove EATSPAM to reply)
19 years ago
Permalink
...
Get a trainer that gives you infinite nitro.
Carl Waring
19 years ago
Permalink
...
Maybe I should have mentioned that I didn't want to cheat :-D
--
Carl Waring
http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495
Jeff Reid
19 years ago
Permalink
Post by Carl Waring
Challenges 37 & 39
I made two videos of Challenge 37, without pursuit breaker and
with pursuit breaker. It made about a 10 second differnce in game
time.

http://jeffreid.net/nfs9/n9c37.wmv

http://jeffareid.net/nfs9/n9c37pb.wmv
Jeff Reid
19 years ago
Permalink
Edit: first link was bad.

I made two videos of Challenge 37, without pursuit breaker and
with pursuit breaker. It made about a 10 second differnce in game
time.

http://jeffareid.net/nfs9/n9c37.wmv

http://jeffareid.net/nfs9/n9c37pb.wmv
Carl Waring
19 years ago
Permalink
Post by Jeff Reid
Edit: first link was bad.
I made two videos of Challenge 37, without pursuit breaker and
with pursuit breaker. It made about a 10 second differnce in game
time.
http://jeffareid.net/nfs9/n9c37.wmv
http://jeffareid.net/nfs9/n9c37pb.wmv
You also made two posts ;-)

Thanks. I'll take a look.
--
Carl Waring
http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495
Carl Waring
19 years ago
Permalink
Post by Jeff Reid
Edit: first link was bad.
D'oh! Sorry. Didn't see this bit :-(
--
Carl Waring
http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495
Carl Waring
19 years ago
Permalink
Post by Jeff Reid
I made two videos of Challenge 37, without pursuit breaker and
with pursuit breaker. It made about a 10 second differnce in game
time.
I've come to the conclusion that I just basically suck at this game :-(
What do you use as a controller? KB, Wheel, pad?
--
Carl Waring
http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495
Jeff Reid
19 years ago
Permalink
Post by Carl Waring
What do you use as a controller? KB, Wheel, pad?
I have a wheel and pedals, but rarely use them bcause of the
hassle of clampin on the wheel. So usually I use twin
joysticks, left stick forward is throttle, left stick back
is brake, right stick left rift is stteer. Lots of buttons.

Here's an old pic showing NFS4 - High Stakes on the screeen
(Mereceds getting big air at the end of a Hometown run).

Failed to load image: http://jeffareid.net/game/setup.jpg

I fly radio control gliders which has a similar setup, so
the twin stick setup is a bit more natural for me.
left stick back is air brake (or just increases trailing
edge camber if another switch is flipped for slower
flight mode). Left stick left-right is rudder, right
stick left-right is roll, and right stick forward-backward
is pitch. For a rc heli in aerobatic mode, it's all
the same except left stick forward is up (downthrust)
and left stick backwards is down (upthrust for inverted
flight).

Failed to load image: http://jeffareid.net/rc/futaba.jpg

Some rc glider videos:

slope: http://jeffareid.net/rc/jr126.wmv

Note wing span on the model in the next video is 122", not 126".
126 is the name of the slope model in prevoius video and I
confused the two numbers.

thermal: http://jeffareid.net/rc/jrartms.wmv
Carl Waring
19 years ago
Permalink
Post by Jeff Reid
Post by Carl Waring
What do you use as a controller? KB, Wheel, pad?
I have a wheel and pedals, but rarely use them bcause of the
hassle of clampin on the wheel. So usually I use twin
joysticks, left stick forward is throttle, left stick back
is brake, right stick left rift is stteer. Lots of buttons.
Here's an old pic showing NFS4 - High Stakes on the screeen
(Mereceds getting big air at the end of a Hometown run).
http://jeffareid.net/game/setup.jpg
Sweet :-)

['jammy sod' stuff snipped ;-)]

I've realised (and can now articilate) the problem; other than the "I suck"
which I mentioned earlier :-D

I think you have to have a *perfect* run to finish each toll-booth
challenge. I noticed on your video that the car hardly touched the sides! My
problem is that I sometimes have hand/eye co-ordination problems; mainly due
to health problem really early in my life. I do manage to keep it mostly
somewhat steady but do tend to hit stuff quite a lot. I think it would be a
lot better if they program'd it so that you could get away with being a
little less than perfect.

Just my opinion :-)

Also, bloddy PCs! I was just reaching stage 4 in my best time yet and the
sodding game crashed :-(
--
Carl Waring
http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495
Carl Waring
19 years ago
Permalink
Well HOLY CRAP!

Guess what I just went and did?!! :-D Only took me about two weeks on and
off!

Proof!
Failed to load image: http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/3474/mw17mv.jpg
Failed to load image: http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/7303/mw23xt.jpg
Okay, it's not the fastest time ever but I still did it!

Now for 39 ;-)
--
Carl Waring
http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495
Jeff Reid
19 years ago
Permalink
I think you have to have a *perfect* run to finish each toll-booth challenge. I noticed on your video that the car
hardly touched the sides! My problem is that I sometimes have hand/eye co-ordination problems; mainly due to health
problem really early in my life. I do manage to keep it mostly somewhat steady but do tend to hit stuff quite a lot. I
think it would be a lot better if they program'd it so that you could get away with being a little less than perfect.
It could be that the real issue is how NFS:Most Wanted deals with steering
inputs. Becoming aware of this will greatly help you deal with the game.

Because NFS:MW is also a console game, the steering control respones of the
cars is setup so that digital game pads can be used to drive them. NFS6 -
Hot Pursuit 2 had a similar issue. When you use a normal analog controller
like a wheel or a stick, the cars response is usually excessive. I had
trouble keeping the cars just going straight at first until I figured
out what was going on. In order to steer the cars of NFS:MW, it's easier
to pulse the steering inwards for brief moments instead of trying to
steer smoothly. The cars respond to these steering impulses by yawing
a bit, which is how they turn. Once yawed, they often hold the yaw for
a while so you can just pulse the steering inwards, then relax on
the steering (move it back towards the center) and the cars will continue
to turn. In addition, sometime you have to steer outwards to stop the
yaw / oversteer response while coming out of a turn, or if the
car just over reacts.

The cars also have an unrealistic response to throttle inputs while
turning. Using more throttle / NOS reduces the yaw / oversteer response,
(except on some grass or dirt sections). Using less throttle increases
the yaw / oversteer response. You can't power oversteer, but you can
lift throttle oversteer.

When a NFS:MW car is turning hard, speed is lost, a realistic response,
but maybe a bit exaggerated. If I can't take a turn flat out, I ease
off or brake well before the tight part of the turn to avoid the lift
throttle oversteer reaction. By the time I'm at the apex of the turn
I'm back on the throttle, and quite often at full throttle or very
near full throttle.

The bottom line is that the cars in NFS:MW respond to both the amount
and duration of steering inputs, and that throttle input also affects
the cars responses to turning, and sometimes you have to steer outwards
to keep the cars pointed in the right direction. As mentioned, short
duration inputs are easier to do, sort of like emulating a digital game
pad, but while using a wheel or joystick. Eventually you get a feel for
the tradeoff between steering amount and steering duration.

Note that each car responds a bit differently. The Lotus Elise is the
most sensitive, especially if you set it up with maxed out downforce.
I've read that you can use the steering adjusment in each cars setup to
change the sensitivity, but I just leave it centered.

Below is a link to a video of a single lap at Country Club in the
Porsche Carerra GT, maxed out. For the tigher turns, I use a small
amount of steering for a longer period of time, but for the big
sweepers, like the right turn before the bridge near the end of
the lap, I'm pulsing the steering inwards about 3 times, even
though it looks smooth in this video.

http://jeffareid.net/nfs9/n9ccpgt.wmv
Carl Waring
19 years ago
Permalink
...
Thanks for that. I didn't really undestamd it, but thanks for making the
effort. My dad used to fly rc planes so I'll ask him to interpret for me ;-)
--
Carl Waring
http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495
Jeff Reid
19 years ago
Permalink
Post by Jeff Reid
It could be that the real issue is how NFS:Most Wanted deals with
steering inputs. Becoming aware of this will greatly help you deal
with the game.
Thanks for that. I didn't really undestamd it, but thanks for making the effort. My dad used to fly rc planes so I'll
ask him to interpret for me ;-)
I may have confused you, the rc stuff was in reference to my twin joysticks
and not how to play NFS:MW.

It's the steering inputs I mentioned that describe how to deal with NFS:MW.

In NFS:MW, to turn left, move the wheel left, but for only 1/4 to 1/2
second, then re-center the wheel. The car will continue to turn for a
while. I call this impulse steering, and is what I meant when I posted
that the amount of time you speed steering affects how the cars respond.

If you try to just turn left, the car will often turn too much, and
if you're not at near full throttle, the car will spin out on you.
Carl Waring
19 years ago
Permalink
Post by Jeff Reid
Post by Carl Waring
Post by Jeff Reid
It could be that the real issue is how NFS:Most Wanted deals with
steering inputs. Becoming aware of this will greatly help you deal
with the game.
Thanks for that. I didn't really undestamd it, but thanks for making the
effort. My dad used to fly rc planes so I'll ask him to interpret for me ;-)
I may have confused you, the rc stuff was in reference to my twin joysticks
and not how to play NFS:MW.
Don't worry. I'm easily confused :-)

I'm hoping to get a wheel sometime soon (probably Saitek 440) but use the
keyboard for now. As it happens I do usually only 'tap' the keys anyway,
except for really tight turns.
--
Carl Waring
http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495
Jeff Reid
19 years ago
Permalink
I'm hoping to get a wheel sometime soon (probably Saitek 440) but use the keyboard for now. As it happens I do
usually only 'tap' the keys anyway, except for really tight turns.
Ok, I didn't realize you were using a keyboard. The steering is only
wierd for stick and wheel users. The only steering issue is making
sure to use throttle when turning.

Jeff Reid
19 years ago
Permalink
Corrections and one more video:

I have a wheel and pedals, but rarely use them because of the hassle of
clamping on the wheel. So usually I use twin joysticks, left stick forward is
throttle, left stick back is brake, right stick left right is steer. Lots of
buttons.

Here's an old pic showing NFS4 - High Stakes on the screen (Merecedes getting
big air at the end of a Hometown run, a NFS4 online tradition).

http://jeffareid.net/game/setup.jpg

This is similar to a rc transmitter, so I'm used to this setup.

http://jeffareid.net/rc/futaba.jpg

Here's a link describing 2 channel and 4 channel transmitters:

http://www.rc-airplane-world.com/radio-control-functions.html

When 2 channel / 2 stick transmitters are used for cars, it's the same as my
twin stick setup, although most rc cars use a wheel / trigger setup now.

I use the USA "mode 2" convention. The other modes like mode 1 and mode 3 for
those dyslexic Europeans that also like to drive on the wrong side of the
road. Actually the real reason is a combination of history and trying to
teach old Europeans new tricks. I explain this below for the maybe 2 people
here that are actually interested.

Some rc glider videos:

slope: http://jeffareid.net/rc/jr126.wmv

Note wing span on the model in the next video is 122", not 126"; 126 is the
name of the slope model in prevoius video and I confused the two numbers.

thermal: http://jeffareid.net/rc/jrartms.wmv

rc heli stunts by an expert: http://jeffareid.net/rc/rcheli.wmv

rc trasmitter modes and history:

The first model planes were free flight with no control, they were set to fly
in big circles. The models were setup to be stable without requiring any
control inputs (see below).

The first transmitters only had one channel, and this was used for the rudder,
which was really the roll control, as the models were setup to bank or roll in
response to rudder inputs. In addition, a lot of rudder input would slow a
model down, stalling it and causing the model to then do a loop depending on
the pitch stability setup. So stunts were possible with just one control.

The next transmitters had two channels. Pitch control (elevator) was added.
Since it was complicated to have two channels controlled by one stick, they
used a second stick, and since most pilots use their right hand for the old
single channel setups, they used the left stick for elevator.

As models got More complicated, they used ailerons instead of rudder for roll
control, and for these models, the roll control stick moves the ailerons.

When they figured out how to get two channels on a single stick, then
they combined roll and pitch control onto a single stick using the convention
of a real aircraft. Most modern single stick trasmitters have a 3rd channel
slider control, which is used for throttle. However, those old Europeans
didn't want to adapt to a new setup; so when 4 channel / 2 stick transmitters
came out, the Europeans kept the pitch control on the left stick, which is
mode 1, In the USA, they just adapted to having pitch and roll control on the
right stick, like a real aircraft, which is mode 2. They put throttle and yaw
axis control on the left stick, with the obvious convention of left-right
motion for yaw control, and forwards / backwards for speed control. Yaw
control is only used for models that have ailerons and rudder (or for rc
helicopters).

Since the roll control for models without ailerons moved the rudder to induce
a bank or roll, some idiot created decided that the right stick shoud remain
as the rudder control, even though it's function with an aileron model is to
control the yaw axis instead of the roll axis. This is mode 3.

Stability:

Yaw stability results when there is enough vertical surface at the tail end
of an aircraft to keep the aircraft pointed in the direction it is moving,
like a windmill, or weathervane.

Pitch stability results when the center of mass is in front of the center of
lift, and the elevator is trimmed a bit upwards to generate a compensating
downforce at a specific air speed. Too slow and the mode pitches down, gains
speed, increases elevator downforce, leveling out the model. Too fast and the
model pitches up, slowing it down, reducing elevator downforce and leveling
out the model.

Roll stability results when the wings and fuselage create a self correcting
roll response if the aircraft experiences a crosswind due to "sliding"
sideways if the aircraft's wings aren't level. Roll stability has to be
balanced with yaw stability. Too much yaw stability results in a downwards
spiral (not good). Too little yaw stability and the wings oscillate. Most
models use dihedral, angling both wings upwards a bit so that a crosswind
component flows under one wing pushing it up, and over the other wing,
pushing it down. On a high wing model, a large enough (vertically) fuselage
will block the crosswing flow, adding to the dihedral effect. Sweeping
the wings backwards also creates a dihedral effect. On some figher aircraft,
like the Harrier, the wings are angled downwards to reduce excessive
dihedral effects from the swept back wings.
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